Small Business Series Discussions #2 - Finding a Great Graphic Designer

Another companion discussion to SBS #2 on how to choose a great graphic designer so that your brand is properly represented on your paid ads.

Joe Kim (00:06)

All right, so today we're going to talk about our second blog post of the Small Business series, which is how to choose a great graphic designer for your small business. you know, we've got here with us today, Calvin, who's been on the Frontside Consulting team for a couple of years now. And I feel really lucky to have Calvin on board because he has been able to support a lot of our clients in their graphic design needs.

So, you know, Facebook ads in particular is one of our bread and butter channels. It's one that I think that we do really, really well. And Calvin has been like absolutely instrumental in a number of different client relationships where we're able to just put out some really, really great creative for them. So Calvin, say hi to the internet.

Calvin (00:58)

Yeah, that's good.

Joe Kim (01:00)

So Calvin, one thing that I really appreciated about you is that there's a lot of great graphic designers out there, but there's a big difference between graphic design and video editing for storytelling or kind of telling a brand story for say organic content or what have you and performance.

creative. So I've always appreciated that you seem to understand the difference there. Can you tell me a little bit about like what in your mind the difference is there in specifics?

Calvin (01:42)

Difference between a good designer and a bad designer or what makes a good designer?

Joe Kim (01:48)

or just the differences between like great storytelling creative and good like performance and conversion creative.

Calvin (01:57)

Yeah, with good storytelling creative, mean I feel like for that you're trying to tell your brand story and communicate, you know, and find a way to bring people into that and invite them in. And I think that's like longer term. In terms of like that kind of creative, I think it's like you're just inviting them into the story.

But then for performance is very much like you're driving them to take a specific action in that moment that they interact with the creative. So I feel like there's like one end where you're bringing them along for like a longer ride and you're, you know, explaining to that, like to users and communicating your brand story and like, you know,

what makes you valuable, why people should care. And then for performance creative, I think it's more, you're trying to drive a specific action and speak to a problem that you're solving or whatnot.

Joe Kim (03:08)

So it sounds like kind of the difference is like storytelling, inviting someone to be a part of something as opposed to like selling someone to something or selling something to someone. Like you need this thing.

Calvin (03:20)

They also go hand in hand. I think in order to sell you also have to like be able to communicate to the other person and make them realize, wait, I see themselves in this story. Like, this is relevant for me. Like, feel seen. I think having a customer, potential customer feel seen and understood in their problems or what they want and like offering a way for them to solve that problem or for them to improve their life in certain way. I think that's...

Joe Kim (03:29)

Right.

Right, right,

Right, right,

Yeah, and so we're kind of that like, hey, I understand your needs and concerns as a customer or potential client. And then just kind of communicating that through the creative, whether it's like, hey, we can solve a problem for you or we've got this thing for you or we've got this experience for you. Is that kind of what you're getting at?

Calvin (04:09)

Yeah, like communicating what the business offers can solve or, you know, add value to someone's life with what they actually want to achieve and drive them to take action to, you know, having that end result that they want that they maybe have been waiting for, like, I have this problem, you know, I don't have a solution or I haven't really taken action to actually solve that. think the marketing creative will really, it should inspire that action or, you know, for someone to take that first step.

Joe Kim (04:13)

I see.

Right, right. And then to your earlier point, it's not necessarily that one is like super, super hardcore one and the other. Maybe they just kind of bias a little bit in one direction versus the other, right?

Calvin (04:48)

Yeah, yeah, like when you're, it depends on what your goal is for what you're putting out in terms of what the creative is supposed to be doing, whether it's like, if it's a paid ad that wants to like for driving sales, then it's a different approach than, you know, organic content or like a blog series or something like that.

Joe Kim (05:07)

Right, right, right, right, cool. Yeah, great points. Let's kind of just roll through what we wrote up here. I guess, so you wrote this, I am not good at choosing a good graphic designer. I got really lucky with you coming on board, because we just had some mutual friends, you had the background in doing some agency work before, so we just kind of gave it a shot, and then it happened to be like, crap.

Calvin is actually really good at this kind graphic design and creative sort of thing. But yeah, why don't you tell me what in your opinion makes for a good graphic designer when working with like a marketing organization or a small business?

Calvin (05:48)

think trust is really important. like finding someone with the proper skills, like not only skills, but I feel like you should also find someone that you can really communicate well with. You know, it's a two -way street as well.

Being a great communicator and finding someone that can communicate well and understanding what exactly you want to achieve. So I think knowing exactly the goal you have for whatever you're hiring this person for is the most important thing. And then from there, I finding them becomes a lot easier. And there's a number of ways to do it.

Joe Kim (06:20)

Mm -mm.

Right, Yeah, it's kinda, it's sort of like when we run ads, like we have a particular like conversion goal in mind. Are we trying to generate a lead? Are we trying to make a sale? Like we have to understand what that is in order to optimize for that, right? So it's not much different maybe in trying to find a graphic designer.

Calvin (06:41)

Yeah, because when you have that clarity, the designer that you hire is also going to know exactly what it's for because, you know, design should be, you know, the designer should just be able to aid that, that goal that you have for whatever they're making. And, you know, finding them can come a number of ways. Like, first of which is like, you know, the best way I think is always referral. You

Joe Kim (07:08)

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, that's we came across you.

Calvin (07:11)

Yes, you know, getting looking within your network and finding people that can vet for someone else and someone that you can trust is one thing. But if you don't have that, you know, there are ways that you could like, you know, go outside into the market and find someone like to go into the market and find someone to

Joe Kim (07:20)

Mm -hmm.

Calvin (07:39)

do your designs and bring them in house. you know, you can hire in -house or you can hire freelancers. It's kind of the same thing though, depending on.

Joe Kim (07:47)

Right, right, Yeah, it's kind of how much graphic designer do you need, right? Do you need just a little bit or do you need a lot in terms of whether you should hire a contractor or full time, right? Okay. If you weren't introduced to me through kind of mutual contacts, how do you think we would have come across each other, like Fiverr or LinkedIn or what do you think?

Calvin (08:11)

Yeah, there's a bunch of different sites. you're trying to go a little bit cheaper and hire overseas and, know, fiverr and websites like Upwork are great. But if you want to, that's kind of like the best place to put a posting for a job and to have people respond to you and, you know, you can test their portfolios and whatnot. There's a little bit of a longer drawn out process there. But you do get

you know, cheaper work. If you want to get a little bit higher level, I recommend websites like Behance. That's hosted by Adobe and that's where a lot of like designers will host their portfolios where you can see large projects and you know, typically they're a bit more curated and more higher level and you can find a lot more.

Joe Kim (08:56)

Mm -hmm.

Calvin (09:06)

you know, local designers, that's something that is of interest to you.

Joe Kim (09:12)

Right, right, right. Okay, so speaking of which, it's probably a good idea to look at a designer's portfolio. If you were to look over someone's portfolio, let's say it's for the purposes of digital ads or website branding, what sorts of things would you look for,

Calvin (09:34)

First of all, I would want to see if they've done any similar projects, if they've actually created ads for social before. I think that's a good place to start.

Because I feel like if they have done those projects, they'll kind of understand and be able to quickly, you you don't have to brief them as much. And they'll typically understand like the platforms that you're working with. I think having that kind of understanding of, you know, how their assets are going to be placed within different platforms is really important. Because a lot of these ad platforms have

Joe Kim (10:02)

Mm -mm.

Calvin (10:17)

a lot of rules and best practices and requirements. So it's good to find someone that is aware of that. And if not, know, can also get that. You'll just have to do the extra work of figuring out what the best practices are for each platform yourself. But, you know, it saves a lot of time when you find someone that already knows.

Joe Kim (10:29)

Right, right,

Yeah, absolutely. And like, I mean, we've done so much testing of like creative and video and everything that, know, maybe for me, it wouldn't be that hard to kind of just say like, hey, when I get 20, 20 second video, I need like a static app that's like this size that shows the product, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, for somebody who might be new, it would be to have someone with more experience. Okay. What about like subject matter expertise or industry experience?

Calvin (11:11)

yeah, definitely finding a designer that has designed things that are within your business niche could be really, helpful. Having that industry knowledge on the type of business you have. think. Having like having the understanding of like the type of industry you're in will just help because just knowing like how

the audience and the people that, the customers within that demographic, what they respond to in terms of design, language, or what is commonly seen. You can always do that research, but I think having someone that is also an enthusiast who has worked with similar businesses, it'll allow them to like, it'll take less time for them to...

Joe Kim (11:53)

Yeah,

Right, so it's like.

Calvin (12:11)

to understand what you need and how it should look or live out in the real world or in the wild.

Joe Kim (12:19)

Right, right. And similarly, we work with a lot of outdoor industry clients because there's a lot of just outdoor industry subject matter expertise between everyone at Frontside Consulting. So similarly, hey, this sort of thing is going to look weird. Like a climber having too much chalk on his feet or something like that might look weird. And just being able to understand all those little cultural pieces is probably important.

Nice. What about if I was looking at a graphic designer's resume? What are like the technical skills that I'm looking for? Like how would I, if somebody handed me a graphic designer's resume, like how would I look at this and say like, okay, this person knows what he's doing or he doesn't.

Calvin (13:00)

it depends on what you're hiring them for. know, like certain designers are better at, you know, doing infographics. Some, some people, I mean, you know, there's, different kinds of designers, like there's designers that like do posters, right? Like music posters or like, I think, I think in the resume, like having some agency experience would be good. Working with like other ad agencies or working like in -house at

Joe Kim (13:14)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Calvin (13:28)

companies of a similar industry, and just kind of seeing if in their resume the kinds of designs they worked on are relevant to the things that you can get designed.

Joe Kim (13:42)

I see. So what you're saying is like the medium also really matters, right? So like what comes to mind for me is like full -out line label designers. Like that's kind of a really specific niche. Is that what you mean?

Calvin (13:55)

Yeah, like whether they design labels or they design like ad creatives or, you know, website assets and stuff like that. I think that does matter to some degree, but in the end of the day, I think the portfolio is really what's going

Joe Kim (14:15)

So it sounds like specific skills, like, I know Adobe Photoshop or Figma or Canva, like that kind of doesn't matter that much these days. Is that about right?

Calvin (14:16)

more important than estimate.

Yeah, it doesn't matter as long as they can deliver you the assets that you need. know, so if you're a business that uses Figma and is really important to you, I think if the designer is good enough, they could figure out how to make the design.

Joe Kim (14:39)

Right. Okay. So like the real technical part of it kind of, it sort of doesn't matter. I mean, maybe they need to understand like the, you know, dimensions and that sort of thing, but that kind of comes from like, Hey, this person has experience in like a channel. Hey, in their portfolio, they have like Facebook ads. They understand, you know, the feed dimensions, the story dimensions, et cetera. Like that's kind of what we're looking at then. Okay. Great.

Calvin (15:04)

Yeah, the portfolio is really the resume. In terms of the resume, I think it's important if they work with real businesses is important too. Or if you're a larger business or you have higher needs of design, it could be good to find someone that can work at that pace.

Joe Kim (15:14)

Mm -hmm.

Very cool.

Okay. And then as far as like, you know, with freelancers and, you know, budget and scope of work and timelines, like, how do you have that conversation with a graphic designer?

Calvin (15:40)

Yeah, I think just being ready with everything on your end as a business owner is ideal. Figuring out the budget that you have for the project, the scope of work, how many assets you need from the designer, what placements you need, how the revision process works, whether or not...

Joe Kim (15:56)

Mm -hmm.

Calvin (16:04)

You want them to create a bunch of different options and then choose the best one. You know, there's a lot of ways to go about it. But, you know, having that clarity is just going to create a better working relationship with someone. Just so that...

Joe Kim (16:21)

Right, so like myself as a business owner, I have to have like all my ducks in a row and communicate my expectations to this designer as clearly as possible and say, I need this, this, and this. Here's my shot list, here's my asset list. Like I need to make sure that that is all cleaned up. Is that about right?

Calvin (16:37)

And they're asking the right questions to them so that you can get the right information that you need to to determine whether or not it's going to work out between the two of you. And you guys can both be on the same page with things that your expectations for the project or longer term.

Joe Kim (16:47)

Mm -hmm.

So sounds like it's all about just making sure that you've got goals and communications dialed, right? So even when you're talking about the creative, it's like, what is the goal of the creative? What is it supposed to do? And having that really, really clearly defined, even when we're communicating, like, hey, new graphic designer, want this goal, and I have to communicate all my expectations as clearly as possible. Does that sound about right, Calvin?

Calvin (17:01)

information.

Yeah, communication I think is the key and the core of all of it because you got to communicate what you want, but then also they're helping you communicate to like the market and to your potential customers or existing customers. So yeah, think the end of the day communication is probably the most important thing.

Joe Kim (17:39)

Awesome, cool. We've got just a couple of minutes left. Do you have, here's a fun question for you, come on. What is like, do you have like like freelance graphic designer horror story you wanna tell?

Calvin (17:53)

I think, let's see, freelance graphic design, horror story.

I have

Joe Kim (18:03)

I mean, the classic one is just like the whole like, I want you to do this. I changed my mind. I changed my mind again. And now I'm angry about it, right?

Calvin (18:13)

yeah, it's always a communication thing because like it's whenever you have extra surprises later down the road, like, okay, this is what I want. Actually, could you make it this color or, I don't like the font here. Or actually can you change the message completely? Or, you know, it's like when on my end as a freelancer, it gets very frustrating when like the client doesn't really know what they want or they continuously change their mind throughout the process.

Joe Kim (18:16)

Right.

Mm -mm.

Yeah, right, right.

Calvin (18:40)

when they want something in the beginning of the discussion and then once I create it and that conversation changes or the goal changes or the direction changes, that can be pretty frustrating. So I think just laying everything out at the beginning is gonna be the most important thing. You need to make wiggle room for,

Joe Kim (18:59)

Okay, so it's to.

Sure sure.

Calvin (19:04)

for changes down the road, I think that should be communicated to like, okay, let's try this, but we might change the direction as well, depending on what we see. think just having that all laid out, I think is going to

Joe Kim (19:13)

Yeah, yeah, Again, it's like goals and communication, right? Just be clear about both of those things. So, cool. I think this was a good chat. Anything else you want to

Calvin (19:20)

Yeah.

I think that's it.

Joe Kim (19:28)

Awesome. Well, that's it for today. We'll put a link to the rest of the blog post so can check it out as well as links to where you can sign up for the newsletter and find out more great information about digital marketing like this. Thanks, everyone.